Trump Takes Aim at Common Core

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura) 01/26/2016 at 17:41 • Filed to: None

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Common Core is good; it’s just poorly implemented. In particular, Common Core shines a light upon inadequate mathematics preparation in teachers in the primary grades.

If Trump wants to do something good for public education, he’ll take on the teachers’ unions, one of the top reasons why American public education has one wheel perpetually in the ditch.

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HammerheadFistpunch > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/26/2016 at 17:49

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Fewer threats this way?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > HammerheadFistpunch 01/26/2016 at 17:55

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I don’t follow.

Birddog > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/26/2016 at 18:00

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I have three K-8 teachers in my family and not one of them seems happy with Common Core.

HammerheadFistpunch > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/26/2016 at 18:01

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Fewer grade school educated children to challenge his intelligence.

SVTyler > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/26/2016 at 18:02

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If Trump wants to do something good for public education, he’ll take on the teachers’ unions, one of the top reasons why American public education has one wheel perpetually in the ditch

Uh, no. Try taking on ignorant and out-of-touch legislators (all of whom have never taught in a classroom in their lives) passing laws and standards that have no practical application or real-world value to the students or teachers other than quantifying how underfunded and overworked public education is. Teachers like my mom and dad work 80+ hours a week (with zero overtime, mind you) trying to jump through all the hoops and fill out all the paperwork (individual students’ progress reports by week, month, and schoolyear, classroom-wide lesson plans that have to be accurate to the letter, total class scores vs. standards) that the state forces them to conform to, the union is only thing standing between teachers and the states’ attempts to institute even more bullshit standards and practices than have already been implemented.

Shane MacGowan's Teeth > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/26/2016 at 18:12

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Why do you say Common Core is good? I truly don’t see any positives that it actually brings to the classroom. Maybe a tiny amount of extremely incompetent teachers would need it- but any competent teacher will be able to do better on their own. The main idea behind CC is to provide good metrics, and good optics.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > HammerheadFistpunch 01/26/2016 at 18:14

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Ah. Ironic, but Trump is no idiot.+

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > SVTyler 01/26/2016 at 18:16

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Yup. And too many administrators and academics who also have minimal classroom experience.

nermal > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/26/2016 at 18:21

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This is an issue that is easy to be pro-Trump on. Common core is dumb, and a conspiracy of Big Textbook to sell new material because math hasn’t changed in.... ever.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/26/2016 at 18:22

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Common core is a way for textbook companies to make a fuck ton of money and also make oh so crappy lesson plans that make no sense. Ive helped kids in the tutoring program I’m part of on common core, and it’s awful beyond belief on how math is taught (makes you worse than better) and how to implement SAT type prompts for a mathematics question. They tried to put prepared scripted common core lesson last year. that ended up me writing an essay that both mocked the absurdity of the lesson while doing the prompt. I’m not a trump guy but fuck common core from a firsthand experience.

It's a "Porch-uh" > Birddog 01/26/2016 at 18:37

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The whole idea that math has to be done one particular way drives me crazy. Way to keep up the Prussian-industrial model of cranking out mindless workers.

El Rivinado > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/26/2016 at 18:47

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I believe that there’s a ton of bullshit on in the education system. Now, I often was put in special ed, because I have a condition that required different environments. But even with these changes, I still got dealt with bullshit that was just there, because some dumb motherfucker thought it was a good idea. But it’s not just common core, it’s the teacher’s unions, the school adminstrators, the state and federal governments, that are to blame. It’s a multi-faceted problem, and will getting rid of common core help that? Yeah, just like No Child Left Behind being taken behind the shed and getting a bullet put between its beedy little eyes. But, I still believe that there’s a long way to go to get education back on track. Fact is, when I managed to learn more about the real world working at a chain restaurant, then I did four years of high school that’s a very big problem.

Can’t do taxes, can’t build a resume, can’t understand basic economic finances I will have to rely on for the future, but I’m so glad I was taught the fucking Pythagorean theorem. All thanks to public school.

someassemblyrequired > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/26/2016 at 19:09

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Apologies for the rant below, but having spent four years on the engineering faculty at a fairly respectable school in the Northeast I have to vehemently disagree with most of what you wrote.

That being said, here goes:

1. Common Core is a textbook marketing exercise. There are better standards out there that existed long before CC. The people that write the tests for the standards sell the textbooks. Corruption in its most basic form.
2. No math major (or minor) in their right mind is going to teach school for 40K/yr when they can easily make six figures in the private sector. If you want STEM instructors with skills teacher pay needs to ramp up quite a bit. For a long time school districts free rode on the fact that teacher was one of the jobs that worked well for women with kids, and took advantage of the fact that they could pay peanuts for people with 4-6 years of university education. That time is up, and if people want good public school teachers they are going to need to start paying them like the professionals they are.
3. Too much testing is destroying public education. They’d get to my engineering class in college, and pretty much just want to regurgitate information or choose one of A,B,C or D. Getting them to actually learn new material on their own or forcing them to come up with a solution without the answer being listed was like pulling teeth. They had learned to treat learning as a set of boxes to be checked, which is not terribly useful in subjects like engineering where different approaches are vital and we can’t cover everything in class.
4. The main problem with public education is self-styled educational gurus/snake oil salespeople (many of them who have never taught) that push these great changes in education on administrators that couldn’t hack it as classroom teachers. My favorite is the “new math” guru who’s never taught in a classroom and doesn’t have a math degree.
5. The secondary problem with public education is this idea that every kid needs to go to college, and every kid who’s going to college should only study science, math and English. Shop, band, drama, arts, sports and PE are useful later in life and kids should have the facilities and opportunity to broaden themselves at the high school level and/or prepare themselves for a vocational career. Plus they need something fun to look forward to so they don’t end up at college burnt out.

Birddog > nermal 01/26/2016 at 19:19

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Is that for real?

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/26/2016 at 19:24

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I think the people who don’t like common core are either 1) old or 2) bad at math

nermal > Birddog 01/26/2016 at 19:37

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Yes, that’s an example of how it works for addition. The other functions are equally or even more dumb.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Shane MacGowan's Teeth 01/26/2016 at 19:39

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My use of the word “good” was vague. Shame on me. What I would have been better to say was that Common Core seeks to unify educational aims of the various states and that’s a [potentially] good thing.

All the rest of what you say I concur with, along with the complaints of others in this space.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 01/26/2016 at 19:41

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They have it backward. You study math, arithmetic and number theory really, and after you use it a lot, you hitch on ways to play with it. Common Core tries to get the kids to play with it first , then learn the underpinnings later. And they assume that the teachers are facile enough to be so familiar that they can play with the algorithms also.

yamahog > nermal 01/26/2016 at 19:51

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Honestly, that’s the type of process I use all the time for mental math, and I’m an engineer with a weightlifting habit so I do plenty of mental math on a daily basis. It’s the same type of stuff kids have been learning with for years with base 10 blocks and the like, it works quickly, and I’m not sure why people are suddenly so opposed to it.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > someassemblyrequired 01/26/2016 at 19:52

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6. The system is designed for White, middle-class families. The books are written in White, Colonial English. Discipline and socialization are separate topic(s), but those, too, spring from the White Colonial Place.

7. Teachers’ unions stifle innovation and squelch accountability. In the real world, if you study French literature and I study Math, I’m going to pull down more money out of college.

Appendix A, About Money: There’s an addage about teachers only working because of June, July and August. That is inaccurate because they leave out November, December and April. The teacher only works 9 months out of the year, so the teacher’s salary needs to be divided by 0.75 (multiplied by 133%) to make a real-world comparison. And no job in the private sector, at any salary level, will allow a vacation of multiple weeks or months. I’ve driven my family from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic Ocean and back three times . And most teacher have access to earn back a chunk of the time they’re not working, if they want to. It’s a lifestyle.

Appendix B, about Every Kid Goes To College: What you said, only more so.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > nermal 01/26/2016 at 19:55

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Common Core is low-hanging fruit.

someassemblyrequired > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/27/2016 at 00:44

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Re: 6. Yep that’s the reality of the situation. It’s not fair but unfortunately it is what it is. But you can be oppressed by it or show it who’s boss. One of my favorite stories is when this kid we had in engineering ran afoul of one of the humanities profs. To put it nicely, this prof didn’t like this kid’s Caribbean accent and the fact that his writing sometimes showed his first language was French. While he was being unfairly forced to retake this stupid comms class he made a number of national media appearances and did a bunch of public events. And he was totally a rockstar at it. Needless to say we made damn sure the kid got an A the second time around.

I’m not sure stupid discipline policies like “zero tolerance” have their origins in white colonial rule, but they are stupid and counterproductive. Administrators need to have a brain (a big ask, I know) and use their discretion. Some stuff is always going to result in expulsion - but there is so much that could be handled at a lower and much more productive level.

Re: 7 A few states are now giving a STEM kicker, which is how it should be. I agree that unions do protect the arts majors relative to those with STEM skills, but they are a pretty significant buffer against the level of stupid that would exist if government, school boards and administrators didn’t have to deal with them.

Re: Appendix A - True, you do have to multiply by 133% to compare salaries, but someone with a math degree can make six figures out of the gate - and a teaching salary isn’t going to come close, even if prorated. I understand teachers get a lot of time off, but they do deserve to be compensated as professionals for the 9 months they are there. Teacher salaries of 80K don’t seem excessive to me for a good, experienced classroom teacher, especially in places like here, where your average family home is getting to be well north of $600K.

Re: Appendix B - Yep I should have worded that more strongly. There’s nothing wrong with a trade, or making stuff or finding your own way.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > someassemblyrequired 01/27/2016 at 11:28

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I appreciate your thoughtful remarks.

With regard to discipline, if not White colonial origins, then certainly a position of absolute power and absolute authority. I believe that the issues we are seeing with American policing are of the exact same origin and, ultimately, a man with a whip. But I may oversimplify.

With regard to salaries, my experience looking for a job with a freshly minted math degree definitely differed from what you suggest. The only real work for a guy with a math degree was as an actuary, which is almost guaranteed employment if you can pass their exams, and I gave that a try for a while. But it wasn’t six figures. Maybe half of six figures.

We’ve talked in this thread about the textbook and the testing companies. What we haven’t talked about much is the academic complex and their stake in all of this. Mind you, I view schooling engineers as much more practical than other endeavors, like humanities, not that there isn’t a place for humanities, but university systems are struggling also and hiring part time lecturers and passing legislative incompetence along to the student in the form of higher tuition. And every time there’s some change in the winds of education, it’s more classes and more programs in the universities, mostly conceived, designed and taught by folks with minimal actual classroom teaching experience.

someassemblyrequired > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/27/2016 at 22:12

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No problem - I’ve enjoyed this and actually think we are actually on a closer wavelength than I originally thought. It sounds like you are in a classroom for a living, and I remember being so happy when I was finally done, not because of the students, but because I was so sick of having to fight tooth and nail against stupid. At times it felt like pissing into a Category 5 shiticane. The classroom and the machine shop were my safe space. A couple of years have passed since I left, and from talking to my friends that are still back there those efforts paid off. The garbage has been taken out, the people that should have been in positions are in them, our major is suffering from overenrollment, and we’re continuing to attract students that will make great engineers and are leaders on campus and on the sports field. So I guess what I’m trying to say is that while the defeats seem catastrophic at the time they are quickly forgotten. But those small victories you score stack up. And in the end the kids will be all right.

Keep your chin up, God knows we need some good math teachers out there.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > someassemblyrequired 01/28/2016 at 11:35

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Thanks. Initially, I probably sounded a bit cynical, but I was trolling for a good chat, and I found one!

I’ve settled on, matured into, really, 12-year-olds. I’ve settled into a zone where I can generally relax and enjoy them. They grow before your eyes. But maybe I already said this...

Cheers, and see you around the Opposphere.